AccounTrends: The tax and accounting thought leadership podcast

Jasen Stine: Welcome to Account
Trends everybody. I'm Jason

Stein with Intuit Accountants.
My co-host, david Bergstein, and

I are excited to be with you
every couple of weeks to share

the latest news, interesting
perspectives and hottest trends

in the tax accounting world.
We'll have special guests on the

show to help break these trends
down and give you food for

thought as you find new ways to
deliver for your clients and,

most importantly, we plan on
having some fun while doing it.

Welcome, welcome back everybody
to Account Trends, your host,

jason Stein, here with you for
our season finale and our series

finale. Yes, you heard that
right, folks, this is the last

episode of Account Trends, but
with me, as always, my co-host

and partner in crime is David
Bergstein, cpa, citp and

Alphabetsu. How are you today,
sir?

David Bergstein: I'm great glad
to be here to summarize what

we've accomplished and what's
going to happen in the future,

looking forward to our special
guest today and he is special.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, we always. So
we've been called out on it,

right, david? We always say we
have a special guest for us

today, but I'm going to tell you
, folks, we have with us the

most special guest who has been
a back behind the scenes guest

on all episodes of Account
Trends, our production manager

and one of my favorite
colleagues to work with, mr Luke

Johnston. Luke, welcome to the
show.

Luke Johnston: Hey guys, thanks
for having me, I appreciate it.

Jasen Stine: Super glad you're
here. So a couple of fun facts I

wanted to call out, and, luke,
I hope I don't embarrass you One

is I don't know if people
probably don't realize this, but

the song, the music that plays
on the bumpers of our episodes,

luke actually rift that himself.
So, luke, you had a little

story about that one day. You
were just playing around, right.

Luke Johnston: Yeah Well, so
this is actually. There's an

interesting business that I'm
going to end up shouting out

here, but this is not a paid
promotion, I assure you we have.

I work with a lot of creators
and one of the difficulties that

people face when they're
creating a podcast or a video is

that they want to put music in
their production, and you really

. For the longest time, we only
had two choices, which was one

you could use some really bad,
corny, royalty-free music, or

you could try to license a big
hit or something that's a little

bit more well-known. So, rather
than do either of those things,

I was like, hey, I know how to
play a little bit of music, so

let me just see how this turns
out. And it came out pretty good

. But the company I was going to
shout out is called Music Bed,

and there's a lot of these sorts
of players entering the market

and there's a little hole
they've dug out for themselves

where there's a lot of great
musicians out there trying to

make it and they're trying to
find a place to sell their music

and make a living. And then
there's a lot of creators that

need music in their productions
and they don't want to pay an

arm or a leg for it. And so
Music Bed, they match those two

up and it's a match made in
heaven. And so now, if you're

looking to put any kind of music
in any production you're making

, you should look up Music Bed,
and there's lots of great

creators on there. So yeah,
shout out to them.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, what a great
opportunity, what a great niche

to sell for, because, yeah, it's
kind of like the freelance

artist, right, you don't have to
. It's always been this you go

down the big record label path
or you stay local and try to

make it from a small band. So,
creating opportunities to help

add value for both artists as
well as people that could take

advantage of their skills, it
sounds like a really cool idea

Absolutely, and I loved it. You
know, luke, you sent me that

clip and I remember listening to
it, thinking where did you find

? this. This is excellent, right
. I've never heard anything

quite like this. And then you
told me afterwards that you

ripped it yourself and it's so
impressed, so we appreciate that

. So let's kind of get into
things. This is a celebratory

episode, kind of reflecting back
on all the fun we've had over

the last two years. And, you
know, let's talk about kind of

favorite moments and, luke, I'm
dying to hear from you. You know

you sat here and listened to
every single episode edited,

polished us, made us sound good.
What were your kind of favorite

moments as you were listening
to all these shows that we've

recorded.

Luke Johnston: I'll narrow down
to just a couple, but I would

say I really enjoyed learning
about what tax advisory and tax

planning is. I also a little
back story about me. I'm a web

marketer and I do. One of them
is a tax planning, a tax

advisory product, and you know,
being able to sit here on this

show and edit and listen to all
of these thought leaders and

experts over the last two years
has really made me more aware

about what even is tax planning
and how does it work and how is

it different from compliance
work and I know that's really

basic for some people, but for
people who aren't in the

industry, being able to learn
that difference, I think it's

made me a better marketer and I
understand some of the people

that I'm working with better
when they say certain things,

because I've heard it straight
from the mouths of the

professionals and the people who
know it best. So I know that's

not a specific moment, but
that's kind of like. The biggest

takeaway for me is just I feel
like I'm a step closer. I'm not

saying I'm a domain expert, but
I definitely feel like I'm a lot

more knowledgeable on the
subject matter than I was when I

started this journey two years
ago, and David, it's been a lot

of fun and I enjoy you guys.
It's dynamic, so it's been.

Y'all have been some good hosts
and I really am thankful to have

had the chance to work with you
all.

Jasen Stine: Oh, we appreciate
that Lou.

David Bergstein: Yeah, we're
thankful that you've been in the

background making us look good,
but now it's time for me to ask

you the important question
based on what you just said,

would you pay for tax advisory
services? Now that you

understand what it's all about,
my wife.

Luke Johnston: she's a therapist
. She's a W-2 employee and kind

of had the standard withholding
and all of that. Now she's gone

out on her own and she's
actually working with two

different private practices as a
contractor. That has made our

tax situation a little bit more
complex. We just got into a

house, we got a car. There's a
lot of things that I've never

had to look at before when it
comes to my taxes. We are

looking to hire somebody to help
us. Knowing what I know, I

probably will ask them to
provide more than just the

simple compliance work and see
if they offer something a little

bit more robust where I can
touch base with them on a more

frequent cadence. I would not
know much about that if it

hadn't been for this show and
for all the pros I got to hear

talk about it.

David Bergstein: Okay, that's
good to hear. So in comparison,

we've accomplished our purpose.
We've got people to think about

Tax advisory is something
different from tax compliance.

But I guess even past that,
we've had so many experts on

with technology, different areas
of how to grow the firm,

marketing, et cetera. Think
you've done a great job and into

it with the count trends of
promoting people and letting

them see what the world is
really like besides compliance

work.

Jasen Stine: Well, what I love
about what Luke said, too, is

both from the sort of because
I've been sitting in you even

longer, much longer than me, but
I've been sitting in the tax

accounting world for the
entirety of my adult career 25

years. There's several things
that I love about what Luke said

. One was the learning right
that I learned more in the last

two years from interviewing all
the amazing guests that we've

had on the show than pretty much
my entire career. Not that I've

learned more than everything
I've learned in my entire career

, but the most in this smallest
amount of time about things that

I wasn't quite close to. But
also coming from the angle of

what Luke was just saying, where
, as a client, as a perspective

client, he's got a heightened
awareness. It's funny because

I'll get messages from different
people that I would never

expected, that aren't even in
our profession, that caught wind

of our show and started
listening and talk about some of

the cool things that they've
learned around this space, not

just even tax advisory, but also
advisory services in general or

business acumen types of things
that we've talked about in

indirect ways and so I think
that's the magic of bringing the

best of the best minds together
and picking their brains and

sharing with everyone else what
they have to teach us.

David Bergstein: I agree with
you. It's been a continuous

learning process and that's what
life is all about to continue

to learn new things, and
everyone we've had on it was

very open and sharing their
ideas and their thoughts, and

we've asked a couple of good
questions, some bad questions,

but I think I've had a good time
doing this. I've learned more

about chickens besides tax
advisory than I really wanted to

know, but you learn different
things. You don't know what

you're going to learn until you
learn it, so I thank you for

having me with you.

Jasen Stine: It's been my honor
and pleasure, david, believe me,

and it's funny. You should
mention the chickens. We just

got six new babies and we're
sure to have hands this time.

We're just about 90% sure. But
yeah, we're not going to bore

everybody with my chicken
stories. But I was thinking

about, like so, some of the
specifics that we've gotten into

and I was just kind of looking
back at the editorial calendar.

We had a mix of various
different thought leaders and

real life practitioners, some of
which may have been big social

influencer types, some others
not really focused on that space

either. And just learning from
when we think about thought

leaders, we're getting insights
that are things that they've

cultivated with working across a
lot of different firms. And we

talked to thought leaders like,
for example, mark Wickersham,

who focuses on the bookkeeper
audience and kind of the smaller

firms, and then Gail Crosley
and Alan Colton and some of

those folks, jody Grunner, who
are coming from the bigger firm

backgrounds, and then even
Martin Bissett from the UK

sharing how they're struggling
with the same exact stuff over

and across the pond. This is not
a US-centric set of trends that

we've been talking about, from
staffing to technology to tax

advisory and everything in
between. We've had Sonia on the

show, we talked about crypto and
Dr Sean Stein-Smith really cool

insights there and I can't list
all the guests, obviously,

especially right off the top of
my head, but just incredible

people that have brought really
amazing insights. But what's one

thing that you learned, david,
in the last two years that you

didn't know before?

David Bergstein: You're risking
me what I didn't know before. I

forgot what I didn't know before
, Plus you already knew

everything, right. You never
know everything, but it's like I

said, it's continuous learning
and you keep hearing your ideas,

and most of these ideas, in all
truthfulness, I've heard, but

there's always a different spin
for it. So I'm continually

learning different things about
different opportunities. I guess

the big thing I learned was
when Jody Gruden was on I think

it was Jody, what you know is
Kenji Kuramoto when he talked

about what's a B company, and
that's something that's brand

new that I didn't know anything
about. B company is certifying

that a company is ESG, going
forward, helping the environment

, helping governance, diversity,
etc. I thought that was pretty

exciting. And it's not a CPA
firm doing it, it's an outside

company saying, hey, these are
all good companies. So that was

something that I didn't know
before. Actually, I think one of

my favorite guests was somebody
named Boris. I think he's your

interperson because he was born
what? On April 15th.

Jasen Stine: That's right, Boris
Smuckler.

David Bergstein: And it stuck
with me Roman Kepchak on

technology, randy Johnson on
technology. Yeah, these are all

cool things, so you learn a few
things here and there. You learn

the world is changing. You
learn younger people have the

same ideas as the older people,
but just they're implementing

them differently. But I did
learn more about work-life

balance and that's why we're all
doing this remotely, but we all

like to stay at home sometime
and work and find ourselves more

productive.

Jasen Stine: You know, it's
interesting how much work-life

balance kind of surfaced in our
various conversations, all from

a problem of what we've been
calling the great resignation

and staffing crisis. I don't
know if we're using those terms

anymore per se, but it's still a
growing problem. Right, the

CPAs are leaving the industry
and we're not getting enough

coming in to supplements. We've
got to think about the work

differently and that becomes a
forcing function for firms. But

then there's also that
opportunity aspect that I think

gets lost in the discussions
around the problem, which is we

can and Jody was a good example
of this when he was doing

advisory and work-life balance
stuff before it was cool

Hawaiian shirt guy, doesn't want
to be like that traditional

firm and started off that way,
built a very successful firm as

a result and then ended up
selling to a top I think it was

a top 100.

David Bergstein: Top 100 firm.
Yeah, and top 100.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, that's right.
And loves it over there and

he's now helping them take what
he did with his firm and bring

it out to a larger firm. That's
a really hard thing to do

because these firms have been
around a very long time,

operating very successfully on
business models that haven't

needed to change for a very long
time, and I think that that's

probably my biggest learning is
peeling back the layers. You

hear about staffing crisis right
, you can hear about the

problems, but when you start
peeling back the layers on those

, those problems are really
complex and they're not easily

solved.

David Bergstein: The bigger the
firm, the harder it is to solve

because they got so many
processes in place. You can't

take them apart and change what
you've done in the past to move

forward. That's why we have Luke
here. Luke's the future. Now,

what do you see, luke, as the
future of marketing? Since

you're in the marketing, we've
done salesmanship, we've done

different types of marketing.
What do you see in the future?

Is marketing going to be driven
by digital solutions and AI?

Luke Johnston: Absolutely, and
it really already is being

driven by digital solutions and
AI. I was talking to my sister,

who's in college right now, and
she was talking about how some

of her professors teach these
marketing courses, and then

there's a separate digital
marketing course, and I was

telling her you need to go talk
to your professors and say it's

2023, there's no such thing as
non-digital marketing at this

point. Everything can be
measured for the most part,

unless you're talking about,
maybe, a billboard, but even

then, there's ways you can
measure that, and AI is also

infiltrating everything that
we're doing in marketing. Even

with my team, we just had a big
share out about how we can

incorporate AI into our
day-to-day tasks that are

repetitive and tedious with,
whether it's writing marketing

copy or even I use it to write
some code. So I'm a web marketer

in my regular day job and I use
it to write code. I'll give it

a set of very detailed
instructions for they write me

some JavaScript that does X, y
and Z, and then it'll spit it

out and you iterate on it, and
obviously this is a chat GPT

style AI model, a large language
model, but there's other types

of AI that are being applied
everywhere as well. Large

companies are talking about
training their own models,

trained on their internal
proprietary data, their own

customer data, so that you can
essentially have a customer

support representative that is
trained completely on your own

data or on transcripts of phone
calls and things like that. So I

feel like the better question
is where is it not infiltrating

marketing?

Jasen Stine: I agree with that
or business in general, right.

David Bergstein: Yeah, that
leaves me with the thought are

the three of us here real, or
are we fake, driven by AI? Am I

really talking, or is this a
fake model of me talking? You'll

never know.

Luke Johnston: Simulation David
Welcome to the Matrix. Yes,

hello.

Jasen Stine: What are some of
the other things, david, that

have been standout topics. We
talked about that. What else

stands out for me is there's
been this back and forth on how

firms think about niche
practices, because we know add

into it from our studies that
leading firms that are

successful in implementing these
higher values advisory services

and tax advisory services
switching to subscription-based

models centering around niches
is a common theme for those that

end up being leading firms
versus generalist firms that

kind of take just about any
client that will walk in the

door. What are your thoughts on
and reflections on what we've

learned there?

David Bergstein: Well, I think
and actually I did a

presentation yesterday actually
in Dallas, texas, to a group and

we were talking about that I
think firms, you have to

specialize. You can't be a
generalist anymore. You got to

be an expert on something. So as
you become an expert, you

specialize with a niche so you
know everything about it and

more and more boutique firms are
going to be there to go into a

niche, whether it be
professional services, state and

local taxes, real estate, not
profit. You develop a market,

you develop a following. So it's
easier to be a specialist than

a generalist because you have to
call in a specialist to help

people. So I agree, I think
we're going to see a lot more

niche firms, especially what we
see now and this came up the

other day. Also, as private
equity has come into the picture

, cpa firms are becoming
professional service firms and

audit is being pushed to a
separate side. So, professional

services, you can do anything,
you can specialize in anything.

I don't know do you agree with
that or not?

Jasen Stine: No, I think you're
dead on. I think private equity

comes into a different
conversation. I want to come

back around to that because I
feel like there's more to learn

there, too, and more to yet be
revealed. There's been some

interesting developments there,
but just kind of closing out on

the niche thing, or the niche
thing, as we and Jason Blumer

were joking about. The thing I
always tell people, though, is

don't pick one niche and focus
exclusively on that and boutique

firms. They're starting with
one, but then you need to make

sure you're expanding into
ancillary niches, but keeping

that niche focused, because it's
about getting deep into the

type of businesses that you're
working with and understanding

them to a level that you can
help them by through advice and

consultation. That is meaningful
, and we had a conversation with

Jeannie Whitehouse about this
in a recent episode, where she

makes a controversial statement
to people that you don't have to

understand your people's firm,
but coming through the lens of,

or you don't have to understand
their business, but you're

coming through the lens of
Jeannie having a winery niche

type of industry that she
focuses on, and I'm not saying

she's incorrect in her statement
, but I think what's important

to clarify in that is you don't
have to know your client's

business inside and out. That's
their job and that's what they

do. You have to know how to draw
out of them where the problems

are, what their goals are, and
then take your knowledge of

working with other similar types
of businesses and help them get

to those next levels and
achieve those goals and dreams.

And that's the spirit of all
that right.

David Bergstein: Yeah, and you
have to ask the right questions

to get them to realize there's
another way of doing something.

They know their business and
when you hit the right question,

all of a sudden maybe the
process changes. So I think

Jeannie is always pointing out
be a good questioner, ask the

right questions, stimulate the
right information. So I totally

agree with you there.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, precisely.
But at the same time, the

inherent value of centering
around niches gives you a little

bit more context to help you
formulate the right questions,

to get the information, to help
the client.

David Bergstein: Totally agree.

Jasen Stine: So let's come back
to the private equity thing,

because I think that's really
interesting Say more about.

There's been some developments
too. I remember over the summer

there was a big merger that
happened among one of the top

100 firms and a consulting firm,
right.

David Bergstein: Well, a wealth
planning firm. Creative planning

took over. I forgot the name of
the firm Bergen, something or

other. But this is a large
non-accounting firm, blind

accounting firm. And why is it
doing that? Well, wealth

management. That's the growing
area in a lot of CPA firms

because you're managing money
and it's opening up a lot of

opportunities. You take a big
accounting firm with a lot of

clients and you put them on the
wealth management side and I'll

use the right word here sell
them whatever you want to sell

them. You're not selling them
audit services, you're selling

them advisory services. And
what's advisory services?

Anything the client has a need
for. It could be financial, it

could be non-financial. So
wealth management opens up a

whole different area there. So I
think that's what we're gonna

continue to see Firm's coming
together of litecoin to non

litecoin. But I'm a big believer
now that the CPA market I

always say, hey, you're a CPA,
that opens up a lot of

opportunities. But the reason
you become a CPA firm is to do

the attest function, and the
attest function is somewhat, in

my belief, gonna separate out
and you're gonna have accounting

firms with CPAs doing a lot
more than a test work, because

that's where the money seems to
be, and I think that's gonna

continue to grow.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, that's a cool
point. And then, what about the

private equity piece? Right? So
we heard a little bit about

that from a few guests. I think
Dan Hood, we talked about it

with definitely talked about it
with Alan Colton. What's your

take on? You know and it's been
a minute since we visited that

topic I haven't heard a lot of
development in that space and

I've heard some interesting, not
polarizing perspectives, but

sort of points on either side of
whether that's good or bad for

our profession. What have you
been hearing?

David Bergstein: I'm hearing
it's continuing to go on, but

you know we've heard a lot about
the big ones, but now it's

working its way down into
mid-size and small firms. So,

whether you call it private
equity or investment or even a

restructure, look at BDO. Bdo
changed from a partnership model

to a corporate model and now
was borrowing millions of

dollars to do employee stock
option plans, changing the model

. I'm just a believer that
there's a lot of opportunity for

non-CPA firms and we see that.
You see that in the Intuit

market space between CPA firms
and non-CPA firms. But so

non-CPA firm can do everything
except the attest function and

that's a lot of advisory
services on a lot of different

things. But the private equity
they wanna get the return on

their investment in five to
seven years. So we truly will

see what happens over that
period of time.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, well, and I
love the BDO example. I actually

wasn't aware of that, but it's
a completely different way of

doing business right and a
completely different way. It's

gonna be a forcing function that
will cause firms to really

think about how the work gets
done differently, how they're

structured internally, and then
that will trickle to technology

and talent and skills and
services and ultimately client

relationships, and that's gonna
look vastly different as we see

those firms operating in that
function, versus the traditional

partner model which we've kind
of been centered around for many

years.

David Bergstein: Right, well,
well, time will tell the changes

. Speaking of podcasts, I listen
a lot to the accounting podcast

to Blake Oliver and David Leary
. Yeah, they're pushing for a

lot of changes in accounting
firms and changing the model. Oh

yeah, they're looking for
things to change.

Jasen Stine: I'm always seeing
new, fresh ideas coming out of

Blake's LinkedIn posts and the
shows that they're doing. Those

two guys are really I think I
would call them healthy pushers

right Like they push us all to
think differently, to look

critically at the problems and
think creatively about how to

solve them in ways that we may
not have considered before or

maybe have been taboo in the
past even to talk about, and I

think that's healthy and
important as we move forward,

and I hope that Blake and David
and others like them keep doing

that, because we need those
challenges. We're gonna be

successful in the future in this
profession.

David Bergstein: I agree, you
gotta think out of the box.

Speaking of other guests, like
we had Randy Crabtree on, you

mentioned that they all have
their podcasts. Randy Crabtree

does a lot. He considers himself
the unique CPA, so there's lots

of people to listen to to get
ideas. The whole purpose of what

we would try to do, I think,
was to stimulate ideas and help

people understand there's lots
of opportunities out there in

the accounting space. You just
have to take advantage of them.

Write a plan, execute the plan
and then hire Luke to do

marketing and get it done.

Jasen Stine: You can't have Luke
. He's ours, David. But speaking

of Luke, we've been kind of
chattering on for a while. What

are your reflections on some of
the stuff we've talked about?

Luke Johnston: I mean, besides,
you all covered a lot with the

technology. That's one of the
subjects that's interested me

the most. Also, I would say, the
learning about the different

pricing models, which you both
already touched on as well, and

I have an uncle who's an
attorney, and there's actually a

lot of the same kind of trends
there. They've moved away from

the hourly billing and they're
on value pricing, and then even

the ones that are even more
forward thinking are trying to

figure out how to put together
subscription models, and so

learning about some of those
different business models and

then also, obviously, with my
marketing mind, how to sell this

new approach of advisory
services to the pros, is

something that I think is really
interesting as well, and I see

a lot of potential for other
pros coming alongside other pros

and saying, hey, here's a
method that works for actually

marketing yourself and marketing
these services, because it's a

new thing that they've never had
to figure out how to sell

before. And if we were going to
keep on doing the show, I'd love

to see if there are more people
we could talk to about

marketing and how to position
yourself to sell these new

services. But maybe Blake or
somebody else can do some more

on that.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, I'm sure
they're planning on it and yeah,

I would have loved to like we
had Randy Hughes and Don Brolin

and some other real
practitioners that were actually

implementing this stuff. And I
think, too, what's interesting

about what you said, luke, is
you know these leading firms

that we keep talking about that
are doing these and implementing

these subscription models. We
should keep watching them. We

should keep learning from them.
I would encourage all of our

listeners keep going down the
road of what the best practices

are of the firms that are really
doing this success. Don Brolin

will tell you she started
focusing less on her general's

firm and really leaning into
this over the last year. Now

she's signing clients to the
tune of tens of thousands of

dollars a year versus a $500 to
$1,000 tax return. It's real

People are doing it. But the big
thing is don't feel like you

have to have all of that lined
up and you've got to completely

transform your firm to just
start somewhere and you'll get

different pieces of advice from
people. Start with your least

favorite clients that be upset
them and they leave. Who cares?

And then I like to give the
advice to people. Start with

your we've all got. I know just
about every firm has kind of a

small group of clients that were
maybe with them from the

beginning or they've developed a
really close relationship with

but they can trust with kind of
being a little bit messy, and go

to them and just say, hey, I'm
trying to kind of move my firm

forward in some new, different
ways that are aligned with how

the profession is transforming.
Can I use you as a guinea pig

for some of this stuff? And
practice pitching

subscription-based models to the
practice, packaging services

and getting their feedback on
what those packages look like

the good, better, best model
right. And practice doing tax

advisory with them and actually
implementing those strategies

and having those monthly or
quarterly meetings where you're

holding them accountable and
you're helping push them along.

Start somewhere, I think, is the
big thing. All the other stuff

we talked about is awesome. You
should keep learning about it.

You should keep trying, keep
moving in that direction, but

don't let it be a barrier to
getting started.

David Bergstein: Absolutely, and
who knows, we may be back to

talk more about this in the
future.

Jasen Stine: You never know
what's going to happen. Or maybe

, when you start your own
podcast, you'll have me as a

guest on your show, maybe. What
are your plans now, david?

Everybody wants to know.

David Bergstein: You'll have to
look at my LinkedIn and follow

it, because I may go LinkedIn
live and that's sort of like a

podcast, but we'll keep it a
secret. But I'm working my way

to more pickleball. And then
again I've got a couple of

conferences coming up. I know we
got the QuickBooks Connect, we

got the Digital CPA, so coming
up at the end of the year, so

those will be to see what's
going to happen in the future.

It's been a pleasure working
with both of you. Even though we

hardly ever see Luke, he's
always there telling us to

adjust our microphones and fix
our pictures. So I've learned a

lot from you, luke, about
equipment and how sensitive it

is, and I've learned some
marketing ideas from you. So I

appreciate you helping me out
and, jason, I hope to continue

seeing you in the future and I
appreciate the audience that's

been listening to us. We
couldn't have done this if we

didn't have an audience and I
know Luke, you kept tracking

that and we kept growing as an
audience.

Jasen Stine: So it's been a
pleasure 15,000 downloads to

date and, luke, I appreciate
your little tidbits as you've

kind of been listening to
podcasts on your own and

learning from that and then
having David and I adjust our

style and approaches to keep
things interesting and stuff, so

just been an invaluable
resource to help us with just

making the show better and
better each time.

Luke Johnston: We actually are
closer to 20,000 streams, oh

really.

Jasen Stine: Mm-hmm, maybe we'll
hit the 20,000 as a celebration

of our final season finale.
David, I mean, this is not

goodbye, by the way. I'm not
going anywhere and I'm going to

be staying in touch with you.
This was just a nice easy way to

make sure that happened, but I
hope to see you again very soon

and continue our conversations.
You always have really rich,

thoughtful discussions about
what's happening in the

profession and you're always got
such a good pulse on things, so

I don't intend to stop learning
from you or any of the amazing

people that I've gotten the
incredible opportunity to meet

and have on the show that we've
talked about throughout this

episode and many more that we
didn't mention. And so for those

of you that are listening that
were guests on previous shows,

sorry if we didn't mention your
name, but that doesn't make you

any less valuable. Every single
episode I've been extremely

proud of. So with that, everyone
, we thank you for listening and

tuning in. We hope that you
have gained as much as we have

from this. We thank you for
everything that you do for the

profession and for your clients
and helping power prosperity

around the world. So thanks for
listening everybody. Goodbye,

Bye.