AccounTrends: The tax and accounting thought leadership podcast

Jasen Stine: Welcome to Account
Trends everybody. I'm Jason

Stein with Intuit Accountants.
My co-host, david Bergstein, and

I are excited to be with you
every couple of weeks to share

the latest news, interesting
perspectives and hottest trends

in the tax accounting world.
We'll have special guests on the

show to help break these trends
down and give you food for

thought as you find new ways to
deliver for your clients and,

most importantly, we plan on
having some fun while doing that

. Welcome, welcome back to
Account Trends everybody. Your

host here, jason Stein, along
with me, as always. Mr Bergstein

, how are you today, sir?

David Bergstein: I'm doing
wonderful today. Actually, I did

a little pickleball this
morning. It's super hot right

now so you can't play late so I
decided to do some self-training

as an accountant. The big thing
now is having a written

information security plan. Well,
about pub 4557. Everybody's

going crazy. We had them put
them in place by, I think, the

ninth. I had mine in place, so a
whole bunch of stuff going on

with that. But I enjoy other
stuff. And the other stuff is

what's happening with your
chickens. You started with. How

many did you start with?

Jasen Stine: So we got we
started with six, and four of

them were like egg chicks and
then two of them were like

designer chicks that my wife
wanted frizzles and so what? We

lost one of them. And then we
decided to go get more as I've

told you about before and we got
a few from kind of call them

backyard breeders, but they're I
mean, it's not. It's not like

the same term as like when you'd
call somebody who breeds dogs a

backyard breeder, like that.
It's very, very common for

people to kind of buy tickets
from each other. One of them

turned out to be a rooster and
he started crawling we don't

want roosters. I know, I think I
was trying to give him a way to

Tatiana when we were doing a
show last time. Well, I found a

woman. Well, my wife found a
woman locally who takes in

unwanted roosters and then I
guess she takes them to auction

and I don't know what happens to
them after auction. So

yesterday we went and dropped
off George, who was our rooster

chicken, and yeah, oh, thank
goodness we're done, rooster's

gone and just focused on our
hands. As I was walking out to

record this episode to my office
, I heard crowing down by the

coop One of our originals that
we were kind of not sure about

his name is Punkin, because he's
an orange and reddish frizzle,

also with fluffy feathers, was
crowing in the coop. So now we

still have a rooster. We just
have one less, apparently.

David Bergstein: So is that what
you're telling me? You can't

tell the sex of a chicken at
birth. You have to wait a while.

Jasen Stine: It's certain ones,
certain breeds. It's really

really hard to tell until they
just grow up and they either

start crowing and grow big
waddle or their hens.

David Bergstein: So this is more
bigger cost this is more

exciting than accounting trends,
and you have a designer chicken

. Did you open up a Twitter
account or a new threads?

Instagram account?

Jasen Stine: No, just just for
us, but maybe someday.

David Bergstein: Well, you keep
me interested in a pride Now you

have you sold any eggs yet?
That's the question.

Jasen Stine: Oh, they won't
start laying for a few more

weeks still, but once they do,
I'm sure we'll start selling

them.

David Bergstein: Okay, I think
we'll do another podcast on

chicken trends as we go forward.
I think today we have an

interesting guest with. The name
of the show is account trends

and we talk about account trends
. We're going to see someone

that's actually taken the trend,
I think, and moved from

thinking about having a tax
accounting client service

practice to one that's I think
it says on her website dedicated

to advancing you a financial
goals, a different kind of input

. It looks a little different.
So tell us who we have

introduced her and let me know
what's going on.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, I love that,
david, and a perfect setup. So

usually on the show we have a
pretty heavy lean towards having

guests that are independent
thought leaders in the

profession, and I think you and
I we wanted to get some more

folks in that are real life
people out there implementing

these trends. So we want to talk
about the trends and make sure

we have an understanding of
those, but then we also want to

make sure that we're talking
about how that actually applies

in real life, right, because
sometimes that could be very

different. So with us today we
have Amy Phillips. She's the

owner of TriStar CPAs and very
established in her journey on

implementing advisory services,
just like you called out from

the website's. Perfect example
of Amy's firm's approach to how

this profession should be
looking at working with clients

going forward. So, amy, welcome
to the show. Thank you for being

here.

Amy Phillips: Thank you for
having me. I appreciate the

opportunity.

Jasen Stine: Oh, very excited.
So we are eager to unpack your

journey. Can you tell us, tell
us about your journey in the tax

and accounting industry here?

Amy Phillips: Okay, well, I was
an older student, I didn't come

into. I started in accounting
when I was young and then went

other directions and then came
back, circled back around to

graduated when I was in my 40s
and anyway the deal is, it kind

of caught me off guard when this
huge change came about. So the

change in what the accountants
are expected to do and what the

opportunities are, just hit all
of a sudden, and at least for me

. So I had been in the industry
for almost 14 years. I was in

industry for a long time and
then stepped away to do tax and

accounting and opened up my own
firm. So it was a journey and I

just had to feel myself along
the way and I was by myself for

a while. Then I had other CPAs
that joined me. So it was I love

the people I work with and then
, as all of that was coming

together, I stepped out of
industry and really poured

myself into this little firm. I
loved it. I loved meeting with

the clients, and the other thing
that I really loved was the

learning opportunity. I love to
learn, and so it was a learning

opportunity. And then all of a
sudden, out of the blue, here

comes these seminars and
conferences. You got to do

advisory. You got to do advisory
and I thought what is advisory?

Are we not already doing that?
And yes, we were. When I really

looked at it, we were doing
advisory and not charging for it

. We just it was just part of
the conversation and it was the

part that I loved. That was what
I realized. I loved being able

to help clients.

David Bergstein: I liked the way
you set up on your website that

you lead with advisory services
. You have an article out on

your website what's the
difference between a bookkeeper

and a CPA and that's really how
you're leading and it looks like

you guys wrote it. You know,
you know the saying that an

accountant does strategic
business planning for growth,

turnaround guidance for
struggling businesses and

investment options, and I like
the word that you have that help

mitigate risks or industry risk
. So you really are setting the

trend by taking a four person
accounting firm. I believe at

this point in time.

Amy Phillips: It is, and we have
a couple of bookkeepers and an

admin assistant. That's very
part-time actually. We're

virtual. We're totally virtual.
We that's the only way we have

ever been. I started it that way
because I had to, and now I

love it, and the pandemic really
helped accelerate all of that.

So it's helped us keep our rates
At a reasonable reach for the

clients that we serve. And we
serve smaller clients and a lot

of CPA firms serve larger
clients. Well, that's kind of

not us. We are at the end of our
Our time as accountants, but we

want to. We want to be current
and what we have found over the

years is that clients, if we are
just responding to clients,

we're really not serving them.
All we're doing is answering

questions. They are driving with
their questions and they only

know these many questions to ask
. They don't know there's a

whole Scope out there they're
not even aware of. So they're

making these decisions based off
of answers that I've given to

their questions and that the
decisions are making are not

helping them. They're hurting
them. And so when in advisory in

this journey, it has Changed.
It has given me a language To

tell a client this is your
question, this is my answer, but

it's not what you need. This
other is what you need and if

you want to do your business
based off of my answer, you're

going to crawl. Your business is
going to crawl. If you have a

financial background, it may
actually walk, but you're not

going to run in your business
until you do a year of advisory

or more, and these are the
things that we're going to look

at. So it's given me a language
to be able to, yes, accept a

question from a client, but
really let them know there's a

bigger playing field out here
that you're not even aware of.

You don't know. You're on a
soccer field with lots of other

players. You just see your
little corner, your little

quadrant of the world as far as
financial opportunities with

your business.

David Bergstein: So so that's
how you're transitioning him.

Sounds like a great way to set
the trend. So how would you

advise other Practitioners your
size to jump on this trend of

talking to their clients? And
then I guess You're upselling

him? Yeah, how do you do it?

Jasen Stine: Yeah, and let me
add to that before you answer

Amy, because I love that
question, david it kind of Lines

with what I was thinking. What
I love about your story, amy, is

you come from the traditional
background, right, you come from

traditional ways of working in
the space, and that's where a

lot of the Profession is stuck
right now. A lot of people are

stuck in in that traditional
business model. And then, and

then you, you called it out, you
nailed it and you said what is

this advisory? I thought we were
already doing that, but then

realized I was doing it for free
. And I mean, I can't tell you

the number of firms I talked to
to say that exact same thing,

but they don't know how to get
over that. Right, they recognize

yeah, okay, I'm not doing
advisory as a business model.

How do I make that switch? And
and talk about like the the

personal mindset part that you
had to go through, and then how

you get your clients On that
journey, because you started,

you started touching on it with.
Well, what you're asking is

this, but what you really need
is this like, go into more depth

about that.

Amy Phillips: I love that so I
have struggled with that, that

very thing. Because we're not
salesmen, I'm a helper, I'm not

someone who sells. We weren't
taught to sell, um, we were

taught the technical aspects of
our trade and People don't

understand it Because they
haven't studied it. They would

rather groom a dog in their, in
their dog grooming salon. You

know, I mean, that's really what
they love. To have them pull

over and look at numbers Is
painful. It's like pulling teeth

. Who wants to go to the dentist
? Nobody wants to do that. Well,

who wants to look at their
financials? It really, you just

want to pet a dog and groom him.
So you know, I feel like

business owners. They're not
always set up to be good

business leaders and you have to
lead a business for it to

succeed. You can't just let it
happen. It will dwindle into

some place you don't want it to
be. It's not going to deliver

what you want. So, as as I was
thinking through all of this,

because we work with
predominantly smaller companies,

uh, and in individuals we don't
do high net worth, um, it was a

struggle to me how to sell
something that I felt like my

clients wouldn't even know they
need. So it took me about three

years of going to seminars, just
struggling with the language,

because what they talk about in
seminars seemed a bit Bigger

than what my clients are doing
I'm. We have mom and pop shops,

local business owners,
franchisee owners, um. So the

struggle was more with the, with
the language, and once I

figured out that not every
business owner wants to be

hugely successful, they just
want to groom the dog that's in

front of them and have enough
food to put on their table.

Sometimes they're happy with
that. But some business owners

really are in trouble and some
businesses wanna do better than

how they're doing. And it's
identifying those clients and

having the language then to say,
to reach out, to initiate, to

begin initiating these
conversations. Joe, you called

me the other day with this
question. That was a great

question. Figuring where your
company, where it is right now,

is gonna be very valuable. But
let me tell you you're looking

at a little speck of the full
picture. You really need to. If

you wanna do really well, you
need to invest in your business

and look at the big picture, and
that's what we do in advisory.

When you're ready to really move
your business forward, we're

here for you. I wanna put you
through a year of advisory. I've

done that. It's amazing Once
you develop the language. I'm

not interested in selling
something that people don't need

. I'm not interested in selling
something people don't want.

What I wanna do is look at
someone that I know and I care

about and I've been working with
and say you don't even know you

need this.

David Bergstein: And you don't
even know that you're actually

selling and you are by asking
that question. It's a great

question that you asked me, my
client, but if you really want

my help in doing more, so you're
opening it up, you're educating

them, so you are constantly
selling by educating and when

they're ready, you take them.

Amy Phillips: So I start the
conversation with my clients

long before I think they'll jump
in and I start telling that

soil and it comes easy, because
I know they need it and they

don't even know they need it.
And it takes me sometimes,

sometimes several months before
they actually get it. And

they'll ask questions and I'll
say you mean, like what? You're

asking me this, like what you
would get if you were in

advisory. And I'll say you're
not gonna nickel and don me to

death with questions when you
need to be in a year of advisory

. And then you get an open door
and I'll take every question you

have, any way you wanna give it
anytime you wanna deliver it,

and you're gonna come away with
not just your questions answered

, but you're gonna come away
with information you don't even

know is out there, because I'm
gonna have the ability to push

out information to you and say,
hey, look at your compensation

packages. They're out of whack.
Look at this tech that's come

out. Look at it, it's gonna save
you some money. Look at your

processes. They're inefficient.
Look at this, look at that.

You're gonna be getting some
stuff from me. And I think

that's where clients they forget
. They think they're the boss.

They are the boss but they don't
know. And until they understand

they don't know, you can't pull
them into advisory because they

think they know and they don't.
And that's what you have to

expose to your client. And
that's a hard thing because

people want to feel competent.
They are competent in their

trade, but the financials.
Everybody thinks it's easy, but

I think it's because we've made
it look easy and it's like

premier athletes.

David Bergstein: They make it
look easy. Then I'll pass back

to Jason. I'll be quiet for a
while. You're very proactive

about moving him to advisory,
but what's the first step you

take with the client when they
say you know you're right? I

should be asking you more
questions. What do you do at

that point to initiate the
advisory service?

Amy Phillips: Well. So usually
they bring me in for a very

specific thing and you know
they're very cost sensitive,

they're price sensitive. But I
tell you what, once they realize

there's a that they need more
than what they even know,

they're willing to pay. And then
I'm willing to deliver. So the

thing is not to deliver what
they haven't paid for, and

that's really hard to rein
myself in. And but through this

journey I've learned to look at
my clients and say you know

that's beyond the scope of what
you've hired me to do, but if

you really like to have that
conversation and I agree with

you, you need to have that
conversation. And even more than

what you're asking, if you want
that conversation, that we do

offer advisory services and when
you're ready, I think you'll do

it. The sooner you do it, the
faster you'll be, you'll get up

off your butt with your business
and moving with it.

Jasen Stine: Amy, you are just
singing my song with some of the

just some of the kind of little
quid pro quotes of examples or

not quid pro quotes, that's the
wrong word but the quips, the

examples that you're talking
about, where you're very

straightforward with them, right
, like, hey, you don't realize X

, y, z, right, this is why you
need this. That is, I think, the

epitome of the thing that when
people tell me well, I don't

feel like I have the confidence
to advise clients, like what

we're talking about here, can
you talk more about how, what

are the things that sort of gave
you that confidence that opens

the opportunity for you to have
those kind of candid, real

conversations with people.
Because I think a lot of people

you said it early in the show
like I'm a helper, right, that's

what a lot of people are in
this profession. We're helpers,

we want our clients to like us,
we wanna make them happy and all

that's great. But sometimes the
way that we make them happy is

not by just answering every
question they have or doing

whatever they ask and just
responding in a reactive format,

but getting real with them. And
I think it was Joe Woodard that

was talking about this with me
once. I think we had him on a

show. David was talking about
psychology and how it relates to

like parents, like, sometimes,
parents. You need to be firm

with your kids and say this is
what's going on here and make

them uncomfortable and learn how
to be okay with being

uncomfortable for their sake.
And so how do we get there, amy?

How did you get there, and what
advice would you give others

that are struggling with that?

Amy Phillips: Well, you know, I
think I think I know what I like

and when I need help with
something, I like to know

somebody knows my name. I like
to know that when I send an

email it's not going to sit
there for a week and I like to

know that when I pick up the
phone they're going to say, amy,

how are you doing? And there's
a relationship there. We care

about our clients. I think it's
not all about money for us and

we're a little unusual because
none of us really work full time

, but because of the way we've
arranged our company, we can. We

can have ebbs and flow in our
work life and it works for us

and we have a lot of life, work,
life balance because of it. So

I think you know we want to have
that relationship with our

clients, not just as a business
to business relationship but as

a person to person, and we do
really care that our clients do.

Well, I do like to speak very
frankly with my clients because

I'm not trying to sell them
anything, I'm not trying to be

nice and tip toe. I'm truly
interested in them and the

outcome of their business and
I'm okay if they're okay if they

just want to slide through life
. But if they really have some

aspirations and some goals and
some needs in their life, then I

want to help them get there.
And if answering their questions

is not the way to get them
there, then I have to say this

is not going to get you where
you want to go. Where do you

want to go? How badly do you
want to get there? How quickly

do you want to get there? You
can know exactly what you need

to do in the next 12 months. If
you will step into advisory, you

don't have to stay there. Do a
12 month stint, go away if you

want to come back next time. You
want to make. Take the next

step. There's always next steps
in a business and I just tell

them they can go it on their own
if they want. That. It's not

going to get them where they
want to go. It's not going to

get them where they want to go.
And so that, to me, when you

give the client the choice to be
in their business, in the

community the way they want to
be there, then it frees you from

the. It frees them from the
expectation that they have to be

the superhero in their industry
. I think some people want to be

superheroes in their industries
. I want to help the client

achieve what they want to
achieve and they're going to

take the steps they want to take
to achieve what they want to

achieve. And if I lay on them an
expectation that they because I

know they can be rock stars in
their industry, if I lay that on

them, it's a burden and it may
not be what they want. It may

not be what they need. It may be
the best thing for their

business, but it may not be what
they need.

David Bergstein: I agree with
you 100%. You know and you're

really doing advisory service
the way it is. You're asking

them what they want to achieve
and then you're helping them

achieve it. Rather than saying
this is what you should achieve,

you're risking what their goals
are. That probably goes back to

your gardening skills. Your
nurturing them to take them

where they have to go. I think
you're. You know we keep Jason

and I go off on these tangents.
We call the show account trends,

but your journey is a trend.
We're seeing more and more

people adopt the advisory model,
but they don't know how to do

it. You're telling them hey, I'm
small, we're a mature firm

where we started late in life.
Yet we saw the trends, we jumped

on it and we're being
successful. Do you go for

growing a lot of clients on US
side, getting new clients, or

are you grow by nurturing your
clients to expand and buy more

advisory services?

Amy Phillips: Both, both. And
this journey has really blessed

my existing client base because
it's really allowed me to have

conversations and I think you do
really have to struggle with

the language of it and because
if you don't, if you can't

communicate in a way that you're
comfortable with, it becomes a

sales pitch and people pick up
on that. And I think I am very

comfortable about helping people
achieve what they want to

achieve and better themselves.
And when I see something glaring

, I'm not going to let someone I
care about sit there in a

puddle and not offer them a hand
up and some new clients. I mean

I've closed more new clients
prospects to clients than I ever

had in the last six months
because I've settled I don't

know that that's a good term for
it but I've established maybe

that's better established a mode
of communicating the value of

advisory and and people are
hungry for it and, by the way,

they, when CPA, say they're
intimidated by it. I feel like

there's so many areas of
advisory I can't go into certain

areas of advisory. I have to
refer people out if, if they're

looking for that, if they need
that. But I know what part of

accounting I'm very comfortable
with and knowledgeable about and

have a level of expertise in
that I feel like I can offer, as

as advisory, and clients need
that. I have a client right now

who's she's paying her people
way too much. She's working for

her, she's working for her staff
. They're walking out with her

cash and she's left with the
obligation, the responsibility

and the debt. So you know she
doesn't know how to turn that

around. Well, I'm going to. I'm
in the middle of helping her do

that. And she's a new client who
came in very price sensitive,

wanted just accounting services
at the minimum. You know how

that goes, yep. And I just
looked at her and said you know

what, you can have that, but
it's not what you need. And I

said if you want your business
to really take off, I said

you've got a lot of good things
in place, but it's not going to

take off unless you step into a
year of advisory with us, turn

us loose to do our best work for
you, because your business

needs it and you and you need it
. This is not a good situation

that you're in. And she called
back a couple of days later and

said okay, let's do it.

Jasen Stine: I hope everybody
who's listening writes down what

you just said. You can have
that, but it's not what you need

. That's how you open up that
conversation. Absolutely

brilliant, david, you were going
to ask a question.

David Bergstein: When you're
doing this, what amount of the

advisory turns into minimizing
the tax burden or helping them

reduce taxes. So do I end up
along those lines, when we're

along the line as the business
gets better. It all relates to

tax.

Amy Phillips: We try to do a
360-degree look when we're in

advisory and what helps us with
our pricing is one the size of

the company we're dealing with,
because if they're small it just

requires less time. If they're
larger it requires more time and

we just kind of price based off
of that. But also we price

based off of where they are. If
they're a startup and need help

with registrations set up, then
we'll take them from that point,

especially if they don't feel
comfortable doing some of that

themselves. But they'll pay more
for it. So if a company comes

in, they're already established,
they've already got some things

going. Then we do try to not
look at the basic stuff, try to

delve into more of the deeper
stuff, and that includes tax

advisory. They can have some of
our clients, existing clients,

just come in for tax advisory
now, so they will hop in and out

of tax advisory every other
year, every three years,

whatever. We don't keep our I
don't think we're going to head

to where we only take advisory
clients. I mean that may be the

thing some firms are doing, but
I think we'll always have an

element of compliance because
our clients are smaller and they

don't always need advisory year
after year after year. But we

like to give them the freedom to
hop in and out so that they

don't feel shackled, so they
don't feel like they have to

terminate a relationship because
they're not being offered

really what they want and need
at this particular time. So I

don't know how that sits with
the current trends. That's

something that I'm looking at,
to just watching the industry

and seeing how this thing morphs
. But I want to have clients

that are in and out of advisory
as needed. So that's how we're

approaching it at this point is
come in for a year, hop out

until you're ready for more and
then come back in for another

year and we'll load you up and
then you're ready to go for

another two or three years. I
don't know how to do it any

other way. We do sell new
clients. I'm ramping up my sales

skills, actually, and one of
the things that I've learned is

to ask the why, question and
keep asking why, because really,

until you get to the personal
why, you have yet to figure out

what's motivating this person
and they may come to you with

business issues, but you won't
know the why unless you ask it.

It's not taught not to ask why.
It's a threatening question. It

puts people on their guard or on
the defensive, or at least I

was. I was raised by a salesman.
They said don't ask why. Well,

now I'm ramping up my sales
skills because I want to reach

new clients. And when I reach
new clients it will feed our

bookkeeping, it will feed our
tax work, it will feed our

consulting to fix problems and
sort things out. So I feel like

really, advisory is going to be
our first foot because it's

going to feed every other arm of
our business. And anyway, ask

the why, because until you know
what motivates people, you're

not going to really know which
direction to head. People have

all different kinds of personal
whys. It's that personal why

that drives their business goals
and aspirations. Truly.

Jasen Stine: So first of all I
want to call Amy. What you

talked about with your how you
go about putting people on

advisory right I think that's
really cool because I think this

looks. People think you hear
from the experts and people

think I have to do it this way.
And you're definitely, when you

hear those things, right. We do
it too. When we teach how to

implement advisory services, we
say, look, here's the

recommended steps that you
follow right, but that doesn't

mean you absolutely have to do
that. It's just what the experts

have seen, that the leading
firms that are doing it. That's

how they do it. But it can look
different for different people.

And you made me think about
David Jody Grunden when he was

talking about his clients back
when his firm was still

independent. I'm sure he still
operates this way, even though

he's been acquired. But he would
talk about how there's no

cancellation policy, there's no
contract right, which is not

exactly the same as what you're
describing. And we were kind of

along the same lines. I bet that
you have quite a few clients

that might have gone into a
year's worth of advisory with

you and then just said why would
I ever want to not have that

right and just keep doing it,
because you're delivering on

exactly what you've been talking
about. Yeah, we're going to do

the compliance work. That's
really not the most important

thing here. The most important
thing is helping you achieve

your goals and outcomes. But I
can help you with that because I

may not be an expert in your
business, but I am an expert in

financial health and that's how
we're going to get there.

Amy Phillips: Worry allows us to
take the compliance items off

of the worry list of the client.
We pick that up and they don't

have to worry about it and we
don't talk about it. What we

talk about is how are they going
to turn? How is this little

business that's a startup and
bleeding way more than it should

? How are we going to help that
business turn a corner so that

that business owner, who's
working herself to dead, can

make an income and make it work
for her and not just make it

work, make it a joy for her?

Jasen Stine: Yeah, that's what
it should be I was also thinking

about. I love that you unpacked
a little bit about the

questions that you asked,
because I was going to come back

to that, thinking about your
client example that you gave

about paying their employees too
much. How did you uncover that?

Was it with those? Why
questions? Can you help us

understand how you navigated
that conversation, uncover that

problem to then lead you to okay
, because she probably I don't

know if she was aware that she
was overpaying her employees.

What problem did she come to you
with and how did you uncover

that?

Amy Phillips: She came to me for
bookkeeping services. She was

leaving her old CPA because they
were charging her too much. No,

they weren't. They weren't
charging her enough they weren't

delivering value. I think they
were telling her what she needed

and I think she needed someone
else to tell her the same thing.

That's what I think was going
on there. She had the nicest set

of financials I've seen in a
long time from a new young

business owner. She made a good
decision and I keep telling her

you made the best decision. It
would have cost you

significantly more for us to
take you on if you had not had a

good set of financials. She was
grousing about how much she was

having to pay for it. I said
you don't even know what you had

and, believe me, it was really
good. She came asking for

bookkeeping services. I was
drilling into the bookkeeping

and noticed these things. I was
able to go back to her and say

you've got some real difficult
business decisions to make. Do

you want to be successful in
this business? And how quickly?

She said I know I don't know
where to go with this. I said no

, I don't think you do. You're
not going to know unless you

enter advisory. You've got a
choice to make here. Really,

your business is either going to
be viable in a year or you're

going to be out of business in a
year. That's a hard decision to

make. Maybe this isn't for you.
Maybe you need to do something

else. Not everybody is cut out
to be a business owner. If you

love this business, then invest
in it so that you can make it

work, because it can. You've got
a lot of good things going, but

it's going under. Why is that?
I said there's several things I

want to talk to you about. It's
beyond the scope of bookkeeping,

by the way. You're going to
have to pay for it. You don't

want to, but you're going to
have to.

David Bergstein: Getting back to
Jason's question, though, when

you looked at the financial
statements, did you see that the

salary percentage was out of
whack with the industry? How did

it jump out at you? You looked
at the financials and a

percentage of salary.

Amy Phillips: Yeah, the
percentages were off. And then I

ran a payroll for her and I
thought, wow, these employees

are making bank. This isn't
right. Her rent is out of whack

as well, but she's under a
10-year contract. Well, that was

a move she made that she's
going to have to live with. She

has bandwidth. There's several
things on the expense end I

think we can do for her, but she
would not know which direction

to head if she had not come into
advisory. She did come into

advisory, so I'm very thankful
for that. She didn't want the

top-notch advisory, but she did
come into advisory. So I'm going

to give her what I can.
Hopefully in a year's time she's

going to return, because we
won't get off, we won't get

finished with it all.

David Bergstein: Sounds like
you're on a great track. I guess

we're offering clients to
choose two or three levels of

services from transactional to
managerial to CFO and they got

to make the choice.

Amy Phillips: Even if they just
want tax advisory, then we offer

that as a standalone as well.
Normally that's to existing

clients and a lot of that's to
individuals who have scheduled

Cs. They're self-employed.
Sometimes we'll do an S-Corp,

but we don't have that many
S-Corp. The S-Corp are a little

more advanced. The business
owners are a little more

sophisticated once you get into
other types of business

organizations. But the schedule
C business owner is not always

that sophisticated. So that's
where we see a lot of our tax

advisory coming from.

David Bergstein: And that's a
trend that most people forget.

You sound like you're dealing
with a lot of micro and mini

businesses as opposed to small
businesses, but they need

advisory services too, and
you're leading them down the

path.

Jasen Stine: That's super
interesting to me too, amy,

because I think a lot of us and
I'm guilty of it myself a lot of

us think the people that are
the right fit for advisory

services are higher net worth,
higher revenue businesses,

because we define small
businesses all the way up to a

million in revenue or something
like that. It's a lot, and so

the word small business gets
tossed around. But what does

that mean exactly? And I know
there's a lot of people out

there have smaller clients too,
just like you're describing it,

and I love that you've managed
to make advisory work for those

clients as well, because they're
probably the ones that meet the

most right.

Amy Phillips: Right, they're
these mom and pop shops out

there. They're the people who
rent dumpsters for a living. I

mean, they're very, very blue
collar, but not all of them.

Some of them are highly educated
and they're very good

consultants in their field, but
they're and they do. Those

people know they have better
questions. They come at us with

better questions Because they
have they're higher, have a

higher level of education, they
have a bigger. I don't know what

you call it, but some education
does something for you to

expand your view a little bit,
so that you, you know to look

beyond and look out to the edges
. And that's where I see some of

the tax advisory software. I
view them as being on the edges

of our industry. We can't go
where the software can't take us

, otherwise we're we, unless we
use Excel or something like that

. Right and that's I love. I
love the softwares taking us.

It's allowing this industry to
grow and expand and it's allowed

us to step into advisory where
we probably would not have. We

were waiting for the right
software to come along. So once

we found that software, it was
like you know, I heard when I

was going through it. I heard,
follow me. It's like the Pied

Piper. It just opened the door,
waved us in and now we have

something that will deliver for
us and it's allowed us to. It's

really been a game changer.

Jasen Stine: Yeah, and you're
talking about the Intuit Tax

Advisory Product. We appreciate
that product plug, amy, but more

importantly, we appreciate your
insights today. I thoroughly

enjoyed learning from you,
learning and digging in on those

real conversations that I think
a lot of people are are hungry

to hear, and and and I hope that
everybody listening has gained

some some awesome tips from from
Amy's story and with how she

has these conversations with,
with prospects and existing

clients. You can do it too, and
and you. The only way that

you're going to get great at it
is to start somewhere, just like

Amy had. So, amy, thank you so
much for being on the show today

. Really appreciate it.

Amy Phillips: Thank you for
having me.

Jasen Stine: And Mr Bergstein,
as always. Good to see you, my

friend. Till next time. Thanks
for listening. Thanks for

listening. If you enjoyed this
episode, please follow us on

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show, visit IntuitAccountantscom

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Trends is produced and edited by

Luke Johnston. Copyright Intuit
2023.